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Subject: TML Bundle #238: Msgs 2907-2921
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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
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Date: Sun Sep 29 21:00:10 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #238: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2907  25-Sep-91 Glenn Host        CONVENTION ANNOUNCEMENT - VA, USA << CONVENTI
2908  25-Sep-91 Hans Rancke-Madse The solution to a lot of Norris' headaches! <
2909  25-Sep-91 "Robert S. Dean"  New Traveller )-8 << While this is not ordina
2910  25-Sep-91 chk@alias.COM     Re: NewTraveller << > Does anyone else get th
2911  25-Sep-91 "Robert S. Dean"  [Greg Porter: Re: Compatible Gaming Systems] 
2912  25-Sep-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au More Zhodani Ships << Hi guys! Just a few mor
2913  25-Sep-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au What's with this computer virus story? << Hi,
2914  25-Sep-91 "Senioritis alrea Another voice joins the chorus << On March 30
2915  26-Sep-91 MacGyver          Re: (2914) Another voice joins the chorus << 
2916  26-Sep-91 MacGyver          Re: (2903) Re: DGW and Yet Another Traveller 
2917  26-Sep-91 MacGyver          Re: (2909) New Traveller )-8 << I think the w
2918  26-Sep-91 burt@ptltd.COM     << PRELUDE: I have recently started up a tra
2919  26-Sep-91 burt@ptltd.COM     << Subject: Revision Well, I might as well p
2920  26-Sep-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN On Hans's Aslan idea << Q: Would you rather h
2921  26-Sep-91 chaber@kentmarsh. Re: (2908) The solution to a lot of Norris' h

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2907
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 08:56:33 EDT
From: Glenn Host <ghost@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: CONVENTION ANNOUNCEMENT - VA, USA

CONVENTION ANNOUNCEMENT

What:    NOVAG VI - Northern Virginia Adventure Gamers Gaming Convention
When:    October 26 & 27,  9-Midnight on Saturday, 9-6 PM on Sunday
Where:   Fairfax, VA (15 miles outside of Washington, DC)
         Elks Lodge #2188 at 8421 Arlington Blvd
         (One mile outside the Washington Beltway, Interstate 495)

This year there will be 6000 square foot of convention hall for
historical minatures, Board games and roleplaying.  Included are
Gaming Vendors and a Snack Bar.  This will be our largest convention
to date.

AD&D, GURPS, Warhammer, Cyberpunk, Traveller and numerious board,
strategy and  minatures sessions are scheduled with more games
scheduled weekly.
^L
General Admission:

    $5 one day
    $8 Weekend
    $10 Weekend with Membership (includes bi-monthly newsletter)
    Gaming sessions generally require no admission fees.

    Pre-payment also allows you to pre-register for two (2) gaming
    sessions.  Preregistration forms will be mailed out to all those
    interested.


Game Masters:

    More Game Masters are needed to run games at NOVAG.
    If you want to run a game at NOVAG please contact me (Glenn Host)
    or anyone at NOVAG as soon as possible.


Vendors:
    Tables are $45 for the first table, $25 for each additional tables
    We will not be holding a Flea market

Lodging:

    For non-local attendants, we have made arrangements with
    a local hotel, minutes away, for a special rate for
    conventioneers.

Transportation:

    Public Transportation is available.
    The lodge is on a major Metro Bus line (#1 bus)

For Further infomation about NOVAG VI or
   Northern Virginia Adventure Gamers:

    Voice: (703) 450-6738
    Mail:  NOVAG VI
           c/o WARGAMMERS HOBBY
           101 E. Holly Ave, Suite 5
           Sterling, VA 22170
    EMail: ghost@ra.nrl.navy.mil
           (Please put "NOVAG" in title)

- --
Glenn Host - Senior Systems Analyst (ghost@ra.nrl.navy.mil)
12307 Tigers Eye Court ; Reston, VA 22091
(703) 620-1141 
Board Gamer and Role Game player

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2908
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@freja.diku.dk>
Subject: The solution to a lot of Norris' headaches!
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 19:16:06 MET DST

The following is my attempt to explain away the most glaring
anomalies with the aslan situation  -  I still maintain that
the  whole mess is bloody unbelievable  -  plus an amazingly
simple idea that I'm quite proud of. I might even send it to
GDW if I thought it would amuse them ;-)

                                                HRM
____________________________________________________________________________


Message from High Commissioner the Lord Goolanzoon, Sector Admiral, Imperial
Navy  (ret.),  Minister without portfolio of the Archduchy of Deneb,  to His
Grace Archduke Norris of Deneb using the private cypher:



Dear Pruneface,

Well, the "Committee to Review the recent events in the Trojan Reaches with a
view to ascertaining etc. etc."  -  in short, what went wrong and what can we
do about it?   -   has finally completed it's investigation.  No doubt you'll
eventually get a predigested resume of our findings through your tame bureau-
crats, but I thought you'd appreciate a informal overview. (And to be totally
honest, I'm too damn exited to wait for an official reaction).
    First of all,  there's  no doubt that the whole thing was shockingly mis-
managed by the Duke of Tobia and Admiral Torgeson. They seem to've lost their
so-called heads completely.  True, most of the regular units were up coreward
watching the zhos, but the astrographics of the Reach is such that any first-
year  cadet  could've  stopped  the aslan by garrisoning a few key worlds and
forming  a few  fire-fighter squadrons.  These are ihatei,  after all,  using
obsolescent  clan hand-me-downs   -   not much superior to our Reserve forces
(rather the reverse,  if anything).  Hell,  give me a half-decent spy network
and  a  good  courier system and I'd've undertaken to stop them with half the
forces the two fatheads had.
    Instead  Tobia  and  Torgeson  concentrated their forces to guard the few
worlds that were already so well protected  that no sane aslan would dream of
trying  to  muscle  in on them and sat around with their thumbs up their bums
while  our bewhiskered land-grabbing friends grabbed left,  right and center.
And  none  of  the other nobles had the gumption to do anything more than try
and protect their own little patch  (mostly with pitiful results). Personally
I think that the proper cure for what ails the local nobility is a collective
brain-transplant.  If  you  can't  find  enough donors,  a set of cheap paper
substitutes will still be an improvement!
    I know, I know.  We can't really do anything about the nobles   -   but I
can  dream,  can't I?   -   but you ought to sack the top three levels of the
Fleet,  at  least.  There's a few you'd have to kick upstairs and a couple of
exceptions, but mot of the idiots deserve to be cashiered.  That's the result
of the Reach being too far from any real fighting for centuries,  I guess   -
all the fools wind up down here, where they, quote, "can't do any harm",  end
quote. Ha, bloody ha! I've said it myself, may the Guiding Spirit forgive me.
    I  spoke  of  fools,  but  I'm pretty sure that there's also a few knaves
around. That shocking business with Aki - ihatei that far inside the frontier
and 30 parsec from their base, for the luffa Mike!   -   couldn't've happened
without  the conniving of somebody pretty high up.  I have a few of my bright
young  men  looking into it   -   hopefully giving the lardbutts of the local
Naval Intelligence  (hmpf!)  a few well-deserved heart attacks in the process
- -  and when we find the culprits, the bastards are going to breathe vacuum!
    Mind you,  I've often wondered what made the aslan commit that particular
bit of lunacy. Imagine trying to control 10 billion locals with a few hundred
thousands.  They  had a couple of tech levels on the locals,  true,  but as I
always say,  once you can make explosives the rest is just dressing.  Anyway,
young Blackstone-Hawke - remember him?  He was one of Santanocheev's hangers-
on  and wound up in charge of the Gazulin Reserve Fleet after the shake-up  -
Well, he seems to have had a few more brain cells than we gave him credit for
(or  perhaps  being stuck in the boonies for half a decade has wised him up).
The  moment he heard about Aki he put a fleet across the aslani supply lines,
and  the  last  I  heard about it the survivors were at the peace tables with
their tail between their legs.  (Not that far between their legs though. They
have  been  raiding Glisten and a lot of other places for supplies,  and they
still control the Aki system. But I guess you know all this already).
    Anyway, there's no getting around the fact that the dam is well and truly
broken.  Apointing blame is all very well   -   it's rapidly becoming the fa-
vourite  sport  of the local nitwits   -   but the real problem is what to do
about  it.  Curiously enough according to my tame sociologists the problem is
more the locals than the aslans.  You remember the old diplomatic joke?  "You
give  us  what  we  want  or we beat the hell out of you and take it anyway"?
Well, apart from at Aki and a few other places, the aslans seems to have come
up  with a variant:  "You sell us what we want or we beat the hell out of you
and buy it anyway"! Most of them prefer to buy rather than take  -  they just
don't  take  no for an answer!  Nor would there normally be any problems with
getting  them to swear fealthy to the Imperium.  Well,  that's not altogether
true;  some of the clans are quite anti-Imperium.  But we'd have the strength
to deal with them if we could get along with the rest.
    That  would  seem to solve most of the problem,  wouldn't it?  If they're
willing to pay for what they take and to become loyal citizens, then we real-
ly should be able to work out something, right?  Alas, the locals have become
thoroughly paranoid about them and in many cases refuse to share their worlds
with  them.  They  organize their own militias and try to push the aslans off
their planets. And you know what happens when you push an aslan  -  he pushes
right back!  If something isn't done, the descendents of both sides are going
to be sniping at each others 200 years from now.
    Fortunately  we have been able to come up with a solution!  That's right,
we have an answer,  and it's so simple that you're going to kick yourself for
not thinking of it yourself.  I did when my aide earned the fastest promotion
in history with just one sentence.  Think about it. What are our two greatest
problems  today?  One is that we have all these young aslans swarming up from
rimwards, eager for land and willing to fight for it, and we can't stop them,
because most of our ships are up corewards trying to keep the damn Vargr from
devastating  more  planets  than they already have.  The other is keeping the
damn Vargr from devastating more planets than they already have, and we can't
do  that  because  a lot of our strength is tied up trying to keep the aslani
from getting to cosy with our real estate to the rim.
    I really wish I could see your face now,  Pruney.  As my aide said:  "Why
don't we get our two problems to fight each other?" Corewards and in Corridor
there  are  scores  of planets whose populations have been decimated;  untold
acres of prime land whose legitimate owners and their heirs are dead and gone.
We  can  hire all the ihatei we can get and pay them off with that land!  And
you can bet your bottom credit that the survivors are not going to regard the
aslans as interlopers. They'll be saviours!
    Furthermore, once we have a credible offer to make, we'll be able to play
the aslan clans off against each others. You know how fragile aslan alliances
are,  Frankly I'm amazed that the present one has held so long as it has, and
it  has only done so because they could get more out of cooperating with each
other than with us.  The land the aslans can get down here rimwards is mostly
second choice.  Give them an offer of prime land and they're not going to let
the  Vargr  stand  in  the  way.  And we'll be able to favour the friendliest
clans, leaving us in a position to make the unfriendly ones toe the line.
    With the extra strength the aslan can supply  (not to metion the ships we
will be able to spare from the rim)  we should be able to clear the Domain of
Vargr.  Hell,  we  may  even be in a position to clear Corridor,  although my
aslan  experts  doubt  it.  They say that the present massive burst of ihatei
will  taper  off in a year or so,  and that it will be a long time before the
pressure builds up to the pre-Revolution level. For one thing, the ihatei has
mostly  leap-frogged over all the neutral worlds we kept between them and us,
and  it will be some time before they've "filled in the cracks".  Still,  who
knows? Perhaps enough of them will prefer Corridor to filling in cracks.
    What  I  suggest is that we keep this plan secret and try to surprise the
Vargr.  The most pressing problem is Aki and the rest of Glisten. If you will
send me a warrant,  I'll take over the negotiations and get the ball rolling.
I've  already put my staff on to planning the logistics which,  I admit,  are
going to be a headache. But worth it, I'd say!

Cheerio,
Goggles.

____________________________________________________________________________

Any comments?


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2909
Date:     Wed, 25 Sep 91 14:18:23 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  New Traveller )-8

While this is not ordinarily the optimum forum in which to discuss game design
theory, the current situation with regard to the possible Traveller revision
seems to justify it.

My question is: What advantages does anyone see in going to a compatible
game system?  Is there really any interest in running Traveller/Dark 
Conspiracy crossovers?  A well done Traveller game should already include
90% of the information needed to run a Traveller/Twilight:2000 crossover.
Does anyone feel that the number of special cases involved will be small
enough to give a real advantage in saving time switching from one system
to another?  That is, does it really take most of us very long to learn
the necessary amount of a new game system to be able to play the game?
Is a Traveller revision using Twilight rules going to have the same emphasis
on combat activities?  Are we going to be happy to be using a system where
an average character can take two average damage .50 caliber machine gun
bullets to the head without becoming unconscious?

I seem to be drifting away from the original topic of the question: what
do we gain by making the rules compatible?

(New players? Or just new sales for GDW to old players?)

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2910
From: chk@alias.COM (C. Harald Koch)
Subject: Re: NewTraveller
Date: 	Wed, 25 Sep 1991 12:36:40 -0400

> Does anyone else get the feeling of deja vu? It reminds me of all that furor
> not too long ago when some boneheads at Coca-Cola decided that what the public
> needed was "NewCoke" and that they will like it because, hey, they'll buy
> anything. The wisdom of foisting a product on an unresponsive consumer
> market should have been fairly obvious.

Sorry to digress so far from Traveller but:

Are you kidding? the Coca-Cola Corporation made a killing on that one! You
see, they brought out this new product, and 'discontinued' the old. Almost
everyone bought a New Coke at least once, just to see what it was like. Many
of these people were never Coke drinkers before. Some of these people
actually started drinking New Coke regularly! The result? an increased
market share.

Then, around a year (I think) later, they brought out 'Coke Classic'! Not
only did this appease most of the old, die-heard Coke drinkers, but it also
had exactly the same effect as New Coke: many people who never drank Coke
regulary before tried it, decided they liked it, and switched.

Coca Cola increased their market share appreciably with this marketing coup.
It's considered a classic in most marketing and advertising courses now.

Of course, GDW doesn't have the kind of advertising power that the Coca Cola
Corporation has... :-)

- -- 
C. Harald Koch  VE3TLA                Alias Research, Inc., Toronto ON Canada
Internet:    chk@alias.com      chk@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu      chk@chk.mef.org
"I think you curdled my Pepsi!"-Gerry Smit, in response to sickening cuteness

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2911
Date:     Wed, 25 Sep 91 16:44:50 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  [Greg Porter:  Re: Compatible Gaming Systems]

See enclosed message from Greg (3G) porter:

- ----- Forwarded message # 1:

Date:         Wed, 25 Sep 1991 16:33:00 EDT
Sender:       Gamemasters Interest Group <GMAST-L%UTCVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
From:         Greg Porter <PORTERG%VCUVAX.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Re: Compatible Gaming Systems

I talked to Loren Wiseman (sp?) at GDW yesterday, and from what I hear, they
are undecided on the convert MT to T:2000 issue.  If you give a damn, let
them know, or suffer the consequences, one way or the other.

Greg

- ----- End of forwarded messages

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2912
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1991 15:15 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: More Zhodani Ships

Hi guys!

Just a few more Zho ships for fun!  Much to your collective
relief, these may be the last designs I put out for a while:  1st
year Grad Classes start Thursday.
Wish me luck!

Scott

Zhodani ZS Scout/Courier TL14 "Stebline" Class
Imperial Designation "Fecal"

CraftID:	Zhodani ZS Scout/Courier, TL14, MCr 51.49392
Hull:		90/225, Disp=100, Config=1AF, Armor=40G,
		Load=1265, Unload=930
Power:		4/8, Fusion=555MW, Dur=30/90
Loco:		5/10, Maneuver=2, 3/6, Jump=2, MaxAccel=2.72
		NOE=180, Cruise=2040, Max=2720, Agility=0
Comm:		Radio=System*2, Maser=System, RadioJam=System
Sensors:	EMM, P-EMS(Interstel), A-EMS(FarOrb), EMS-Jm(FarOrb),
		Neutrino=10Kw, Densitometer=250m
		ActObjScn=Rout	ActObjPin=Rout
		PasObjScn=Rout	PasObjPin=Rout
		PasEnScn=Simp	PasEnPin=Rout
Off:		HPt=1
		BLaser=x03
		Batt		1
		Bear		1
Def:		DefDM+2

Control:	Computer Mod1bis*3, HoloHUD*2, HoloLink*2
Accom:		Crew=2(Bridge/Engineer=1, Gunner=1)
		Passenger=6, Stateroom=4,
		BasicEnv, BasicLS, ExtendLS, G-Plate, I-Comps
Other:		Fuel=424kl(1 jump-2+30dy), Cargo=411kl,
		Scoops, Fuel Pure=6.75hr, SubCraft=1*6ton Speeder,
		ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=None
Remarks:	The Zhodani scout is used both by the military and
commercial concerns for frontier exploration and reconnaissance.
The Imperial designations are not known for their kind
asessments.
	The time required for fuel purification is 1/4 of a standard
Zhdant day


Zhodani Courier, TL 14 "Zefienzhjipr" Class
Imperial Designation "Trickster"

CraftID:	Zhodani Courier, TL14, MCr 103.2201
Hull:		180/450, Disp=200, Config=1AF, Armor=40G,
		Unload=1699, Load=2448
Power:		3/6, Fusion=844MW, Dur=30/90
Loco:		13/26, Jump=3, 4/8, Maneuver=2, MaxAccel=2.86
		NOE=180kph, Cruise=2040, Max=2720, Agility=1
Comm:		Radio=System*2, Maser=System, RadioJam=System
Sensors:	EMM, P-EMS(Interstel), A-EMS(FarOrb), EMS-Jm(FarOrb),
		Densitometer=250m, Neutrino=10kw
		ActObjScn=Rout	ActObjPin=Rout
		PasObjScn=Rout	PasObjPin=Rout
		PasEnScn=Simp	PasEnPin=Rout
Off:		HPt=1
		BLaser=x03
		Batt		1
		Bear		1
Def:		DefDm+9
		SCaster=xx3
		Batt		1
		Bear		1
Control:	Computer Mod3*3, HUD*3, HoloLink*3
Accom:		Crew=5(Bridge=1, Engineer=1, Gunner=1, Medic=1,
		Steward=1) Stateroom=9,
		BasicEnv, BasicLS, ExtendLS, G-Plate, I-Comps
Other:		Fuel=887kl(1 jump-2+30dy), Cargo=623Kl,
		Scoops, Fuel Pure=6.75hr, SubCraft=1*6ton Speeder,
		ObjSize=Avg, EmLevel=None
Remarks:	The Zhodani courier is a private vessel used by
government officials for travel and diplomatic purposes.
	I once ran a campaign of Zho characters who started out with
a 120 year old TL12 version of this ship.  She was named
"Kliemoshie" (translation:  Investigator of things that do not
fit)  She was called "Moshie" by the crew (translation:  Misfit)

Partial scheme of Imperial naming designations:
Fighter/Scout:  Begins with an F
Reconaissance/Courier:  Begins with a T

Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2913
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1991 16:55 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: What's with this computer virus story?

Hi,

I don't know about you folks, but In the few campaigns I have run, and
in my dealings with Trav, I have always assumed that the Imperium, and
the rest of the Trav universe are in a state of equilibrium.

By that I mean that in order change something You need a lot of power
to do so.  In order to assasinate Strephon you need a fleet, an extremely
fool proof plan, or yu have to be an arch duke.  Thing like that.
The point being that there is something to prevent the ordianary players
from taking over the galaxy.

For every thing that the players might think up, there exists a defence
to oppose them.  (Well, nearly everything... remember the high speed
projectiles train...)  Thus Joe Player can't just write a quick virus
that will take over the galaxy.

If Joe Player could do it, Then Donny Zhodani would have done it centuries
ago!  Therefore, when computer viruses started becoming the new fashion
wave a couple of years ago.  I just assumed that in 5000 years the Imperium
would have some damn good countermeasures against viruses.  I may be no
computer whiz but I don't think a virus can get to a computer that is
shut down!  Presumably the Imerials would have reserve computers on line
in case someone did get through with a virus.

So defences MUST exist, and they have been presumably overcome.  Well, If
traveller is going to work, you must have a functioning jump drive.  That
requires a functioning model 1 computer.  Now in my opinion, a functioning
model one computer should be able to clear a model 2 of viruses.  A model
2 can clear a 3, and once you have worked your way up to 9, then you are
done!  Problem solved!  The Imperium is now functional.  QED

I dislike the messing about in the universe GDW is rumored to be considering.
Frankly, I don't like the Rebellion either!  All the campaigns I have run
are pre-Fifth Frontier War!  I have used MegaTrav rules, but not the Rebellion.

If GDW comes up with a whole new history, I'm not gonna go along with it.
Frankly, I've been trying to figure out just how powerful these computers are
to use them to their full potential in games (Bio-interfaces and all that
that isn't covered in MegaTrav)  Now They are trying to take the computer
stuff away.  Big mistake.  Computers are gonna be much more powerful in the
future.  And right now, computers are playing more and more important roles
in Science Fiction being written and read by the people who either are or
in future may be interested in playing (or even Buying) traveller.  I'm
talking about how to integrate cyberpunk stuff in with Trav.

This looks like a BIG mistake to me.

Scott Kellogg
- -One of the three Hordesmen of the apocolypse

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2914
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 15:01:53 edt
From: "Senioritis already?!? (Anderson, Richard)" <ANDERSOR%DICKINSN.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Another voice joins the chorus

On March 30, 1983, two friends of mine gave me the basic Beowulf starter set
for Traveller, and it was good.  Then, another friend of mine gave me book 5,
and it, too, was good.  Before I knew it, I had so many little 4"x5 1/2"
booklets that I hardly knew where to keep them all.  Traveller had been very
good to me, as well as to all the other people with whom I played it.  Sure,
it was a little rough around the edges, but that added to its charm.

Then MT came along... and let me just say that I think Strephon got the best
deal of any of us.  Traveller used to be a nice, infinitely moldable, and
over all, comfortable game.  Since the borders never changed, the only kind
of adventures available were small-scale mercenery tickets, espionage and
intrigue, trading/smuggling, sleuthing, etc.  This was fine with me because,
hey, who REALLY wanted to control whole squadrons and lead them into battle?
(That was, after all, what TCS was for.)  But even more importantly, who
really wants to have to play cat and mouse with battlecruisers when all they
have is an underarmed fat trader?  Maybe once in a character's lifetime, but
certainly not as a matter of course any time that one wants to travel beyond a
couple of subsectors.  In old Traveller, the scale of events was eminently
manageable.  The sheer size of the realm allowed the ref to do just about
anything... but the fact that the system was stable meant that none of the
possible options were proscribed.  You want adventure along a battle-zone?
Just head over to the Hinterworlds or to the Zhodani border.

But that is neither here nor there.  MT is here, and that's life.  (I guess
one could always become a romantic and go back to the old system... warts and
all.  My friends and I usually just used the rules we liked and ignored or
abstracted the rest.)  So now that the boys at GDW have become bored with
their little Congress of Vienna, eh?  Now they want to see the Visigoths
breach the walls of a declining rome, eh?  And to do this, they think they're
going to foist off some two-bit game system that sounds like a really bad
Wagner opera?  (No offense to any Wagner fans out there.)  Well, I have many,
many better things to spend my money on than 'new' game systems that base
their plot upon some over-zealous computer virus!

I guess I'll just have to hole myself up in an ivory tower somwhere and start
looking for people who want to do Traveller the old-fashioned way... Strephon
and all.

(Oh, and coincidentally, I never did purchase Fighting Sh--s or COAAC{K!}, so
I guess I don't have complete justification to be as angry as some of the
other TMLers.  I'll simply consider myself lucky on this count.)

There, that's all.  Thank you for listening to this romantic's lament.

Richard H. Anderson
ANDERSOR@DICKINSN.bitnet

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2915
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: (2914) Another voice joins the chorus
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 91 0:11:45 EDT

> Then MT came along... and let me just say that I think Strephon got the best
> deal of any of us.  Traveller used to be a nice, infinitely moldable, and
> over all, comfortable game.  Since the borders never changed, the only kind
> of adventures available were small-scale mercenery tickets, espionage and
> intrigue, trading/smuggling, sleuthing, etc.  This was fine with me because,
> hey, who REALLY wanted to control whole squadrons and lead them into battle?

	Oh I couldn't agree more. That is why I dislike Rebelion so.
Suddenly the entire universe is in chaos, makes the ref's life very
difficult.

					Mac

Wilson MacGyver                      | Everytime you have an idea, I get 
Internet:macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu | grounded for a week!
=====================================| 			- Gloria
Disclaimer:All opinions are mine only|=======================================

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2916
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: (2903) Re: DGW and Yet Another Traveller
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 91 3:41:35 EDT

......
> this seem to be something that the design crew and managers (if those groups
> are different people, the company is too large:) do if they are interested on
> their spare time and in others this has been formalized as a part of the 
> normal operation of the company. Steve Jackson Games seems to be an example on 
> the latter, and I think this is the way to go.

	I quite agree, and this is a new trend. The designers have found
on-line services to be a good way to keep in touch with the gamers. 
Not only SJG has this as part of the normal operation of the company,
but FASA, WEG also does the same. 

Wilson MacGyver                      | Everytime you have an idea, I get 
Internet:macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu | grounded for a week!
=====================================| 			- Gloria
Disclaimer:All opinions are mine only|=======================================


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2917
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: (2909)  New Traveller )-8
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 91 3:54:29 EDT

I think the whole thing with this compatible system is so that people
who is well verse in one game can jump into another with ease.

For example, anyone who is well verse in Dark Conspiracy can learn to
play TW2000 just like that. If I have never play Traveller before,
and I know that the system is compatible with other GDW games which I
have had experience with, it'd be easier for me to learn the game.
And since I'm usually lazy, that would prove to be an adavantage for me.

Also, I think it would incrase the usefulness of GDW supplements.
If the rules are compatible, I can use say TW2000's Infantry weapons
of the world if I so desire without much work on my part. Making the
rules compatible isn't just for running cross over campaigns.

				Mac, who has no idea why he's up at 4AM!

Wilson MacGyver                      | Everytime you have an idea, I get 
Internet:macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu | grounded for a week!
=====================================| 			- Gloria
Disclaimer:All opinions are mine only|=======================================

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2918
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 91 10:12:28 EDT
From: burt@ptltd.COM (Burton Choinski.)


PRELUDE:
  I have recently started up a traveller game.  No, not MT, but original traveller.
(well, I bought the referee's guide for the ship generation).
Well, that one guide opened up a can o' worms.   As a result, I was planning to
tweak the ship combat anyways.  

Rob Dean says:
[]     I had the opportunity (misfortune?) of having space combat in my weekly
[] Traveller game last Monday night.  I was going to sit down immediately after
[] the game and write a lengthy diatribe on the flaws in that system, but sense
[] prevailed.  I woke up the next morning and realized that I had done my 
[] modifiers backwards, and that the enemy ship with armor-52 (-4 die modifier)
[] was not, in fact, nearly invincible.  However, the question of discontinuity
[] between the space and vehicle combat systems remained.

I noticed that as well.  They palmed the high-guard system for damage resolution,
but this just makes it worse.

Problem #1: Scale is too big
I know this is the future, but the hex scale is just too immense, as is the
time scale.  I prefer a more of a dogfight atmosphere, with short (30 second)
turns and reasonable distances. Besides, look at the ROF of a beam laser -- 30
per minute.  At a 20 minute scale there should be so many crossing beams that
each side will get very many hits.  Even being somewhat pessimistic, 9+ total to
hit produces about 150-200 beam hits.  After one turn, most ships will look
like cheese shreaders.  

Another problem is missiles.  It takes a M-6 ship 1 turn to travel 6 hexes if
starting from a standstill.  Missiles launched said ship when many hexes away
hit THAT SAME TURN.  Ppbbtt!

With a 30 second turn (3 personal combat turns), the hexes are 4.5km across
(so we'll fudge it to 5km).

[] was experiencing was that two small ships (1 200 tons, the other 400 tons)
[] could not do any damage to each other except Fuel-1, Weapons-1, and, I
[] think, Maneuver-1 (I'm not sure about that because of the modifier screw

Armor should be used similar to the 2300ad way -- shots that do not
penetrate can cause surface hits.  This will most likely damage sensors,
exposed comminications gear, turrets, and perhaps the maneuver drive (giv it half
armor?).  Everything else is unaffected.  Penetrating hits have the possiblility
of producing surface damage in addition to internal damage.

The result of this is that heavily armored ships without penetrating weapons will
shoot each other blind (and perhaps immobile).  Just like shooting a rifle at a
tank.  You might clip the headlights, radio stalk and IR systems, but do little
else.

[] up).  Using the vehicle combat system, we quickly see that a 250 MW laser
[]has a pretty useful penetration versus an armor-40 hull, and that the
[] 250 damage points done in a typical 'low penetration' hit will pretty well
[] trash any part of the ship that has separate damage points.  As I described

This is the major problem I saw.  Another that I feel is wrong is the way
hits are calculated.  Doubling the size of a component does not double the
damage it can take, in my mind.  I have come up with a small formula based on
hull volume and the hull armor weigh modifier to compute the hull hits.
I use a square-root rule (4x volume is 2x effective).  At present the formula
is something like SQRT(VOL/4050/WM)*7.  VOL is hull volume, WM is armor weight
modifier.  "7" is the constant I use for basic hits, assuming crystaliron
I think.  Steel ships have less, superdense have more, etc.  Assuming
the normal armor, a 100t ship has 7 hull hits until it is "disabled", meaning
no maneuvering allowed.  Perhaps at double this it just falls apart.

Now this value may be too low.  I presume that with every penetration you get a
free hull hit as well, so this should be upped.  Any comments on a good value?
Lasers might do 1 hull hit, energy weapons 2 hull hits, missiles 1d6 hull hits,
nukes 6d6 hull hits, or something like that.  In this case, it better be upped.

[] the combat, our heroes fired numerous missiles at the enemy until all turrets
[] were knocked out, and then closed to visual range to deliver the coup de grace
[] to the enemy with their single laser...regrettably the enemy vessel had 
[] repaired one laser in a triple turret and fired one shot which nearly destroyed
[] the player's ship's power plant.  I'm satisfied with that result, but not

Well, another problem with long turns.  But, players will have little chance as well
with short turns.

[] with the method used to generate it.  (I know, I have a copy of Bertil's
[] system, but I haven't read it enough to use it yet...).  I found that in the
[] heat of the game that it was not worthwhile to worry about sensor rolls, and
[] that the -1 per hex sensor penalty seems too severe given that weapons are
[] supposed to have a 500,000km range. We also used a Mayday set for combat
[] resolution, which took a few minutes to explain about vectors...but not so
[] many minutes that it seemed prohibitive.

I really don't like the "real" movement very much when I'm playing a space-opera
game.  I may try to use a variant of the 2300ad system, where ships have a
raw speed for each turn.  Actually, I'd like to use some Star Fleet Battles
Ideas as well.  With such a system, you actually have to plot your movement
so as to expose your best weapons (or to hide battle damage to the armor.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In any case, I'm presently beating on the vehicle design system in order to
put some sense into it.  I am referencing Striker for much of the information.
For example, I am using the air frame table as a guide to expand the streamlining
options (USL = simple, SL = Transonic, AF = Hypersonic).  I am also using
the 2300ad idea on steamling (Transonic streamlining wastes 10% of the chosen
volume, Hypersonic wastes 20%, Supersonic wastes 15%, subsonic wastes 5%).
This will fit in well with the planetoid space-waste.

If anyone has the collected articles or notes of the TDR vehicle system,
could you please mail it to me at burt%pager.ptltd.com?  And also, comments
on the above stuff would be great.

    -- Burton

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2919
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 91 11:25:06 EDT
From: burt@ptltd.COM (Burton Choinski.)

Subject: Revision

Well, I might as well put my Cr2 into the maelstrom...
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
First off, I started playing traveller in 1979, and started running
it in 1980.  Yea, back with the old books.  I basically ran my
game through high school, then stopped (other things, no players,
etc).  

Last year or so (maybe 2 years ago) I got Traveller:2300 because
I wanted to run traveller again, and was thrilled at the prospect
of an "upgrade" to a cleaner and more modern system.  You have to
face it people, traveller was designed in the D&D era, where every
game had 6 characteristics.  The basic system was simple, and
with every suppliment, book and adventure became more rich in
background.  However, the basic artifacts of the simple system
remained:

You have an area (the spinward marches) that has been settled for
about 1000 years.  Yet, tech level is ALL OVER THE PLACE.
High, low, you name it.  

Anyways, I bought 2300ad when the revision came out, and it did fix
some flaws (I did, however, switch to using 2d6 for task rolls
because I liked the curve better).

At present, I am once again running traveller, having dug up all
my old books.  Yes, I bought the Referee's guide because
I wanted the vehicle design rules.  (but that is another
victim on the torture table for another time).

What I'm trying to get at here is that Traveller, MT, and any other
system BASED on it is already obsolete as far as I am concerned.
While I have not sunk as much investment into MT as others of you
out there, I have plopped down plenty for othert game systems
through the years, and will most likely continue to do so until
I find THE game that suits me and my players best.

If GDW does a revision, they should start from scratch.  No basing
it on another system.  They should start with an initial premise
about the feel of the game ("hard" SF?  Science Fantasy?
Space Opera?) and design the game around that feel.  If you
are going to pretend to have science in a game, don't be a
slave to the dice (see below).  Have more than six characteristics
if that is what it takes to define the character (I lean toward
at least 8, 4 physical and 4 mental).  Don't make social standing
and education a characteristic,make it a background.

In short, they should be innovative.  While some systems are unweildy,
they should be able to pool their resources and come up with
the SF game of the 90's and beyond.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
In a related note, for TDR people, I have tweaked my world generating
system into a blend of 2300ad, traveller and other sources.
As a result, I had to pitch the spinward marches out the window
and regenerate it.  Here is a sample world:

Zdazeplipl  (Zh)  B 12k 0.74g Thi/VLo t  57%   6b 78-B <A->  -- (3 )

Cryptic?  Mabye.  But much more real in the way it is generated than
by using a 2-12 range...

World Physical Stats: Generated first.  Size is found similar to
that in 2300ad, rated in thousands of kilometers.  Density
determined, and the gravity is found from that.

Atmosphere: I palmed Mr. Bruddick's Star system generation program
for interesting formulas, such as determining volitile inventory.
With the inventory rating, I simply check to see if the escape
velocity for gasses with a molecular weight of 44 or less is
greater than that of the world.  If so, it is a vacuum world.  If
not, the inventory, spread evenly about the surface determines
pressure.  I roll 2d6 for 8+ (modifiers for high pressure)
for tainting.  If tainted, a second 2d6 roll checks for irritant.
If irritant, a third roll checks for corrosiveness.

Hydro: Again, once volitile inventory is found, I check to see if
water vapor can escape the world.  If so, the world goes dry.
If not, surface area and a random element determines amount of
water cover based on inventory.

Oxygen: Based on the amount of water present, and assuming oxygen
molecules can't escape the planet, I determine an oxygen
content.  It is possible now to have worlds with thin atmospheres,
but require oxygen tanks.  Likewise, you can have very thin pressures
but enough oxygen pressure to breath without respirators.
In the info above, the world has a Thin atmosphere and a Very Low
Oxygen content.

Population:  The trickiest part.  Once the world's condition is
determined, I determine a population modifier based on how
desireable the world is.  T-norm worlds have the greatest modifiers,
but any world with a breathable atmosphere is better off than an
airless rock.  I then tweak this basic modifier depending on the
"age" of the subsector (mature?  Established?  Recently colonized?)
And add a random element to the modifier.  Values below 1 are
considered to be empty worlds that nobody bothered to colonize.
This population roll is checked on a table to find the population
rating (minimum of 1000, max of 100b).  This rating is cut down
if the available surface area and tech level aren't up to it.
(no, I will not shoehorn 10b people on a 1km rockball!  Likewise,
unless there is lots of room, no way is a TL-0 culture going to
number in the billions). 

Starport: yes, starport is generated AFTER population.  There are
several tables, with the higher populations getting a better chance
of having a class A Starport.  

Government: Actually broken into 3 seperate generation systems, for
lo, moderate and high populations.  Low population worlds roll on
a simple table (of governments I think they can have), while
moderate populations roll a single dice (okay, a d15, but thats
what computers are for).  High population governments roll a single
dice as well, but the greater they are above a certain point (1b
people) the greater the chance the type will be Balkenized.

Law: Actually calculated the same way -- Gov-7+2d6

Tech: Totally different means of determination.  Starport type
drives tech level (for example, Type A might be 16-1d4, Type B
might be 16-1d6, etc).  If generating worlds for a cohesive or linked
culture (imperium, Zhodani, etc), reduce the variance by 1 (i.e.
make a 1d3 roll instead of a 1d4 roll).  If a tight culture
(sword worlds), reduce tha variance by 2.  If on the fringes
of a large collective, increase the variance by 1.
Set a limiting TL for the culture (generally 15 for Imperium,
14 for Zhodani and Vargr, 12 for Sword worlds and other independant
worlds).  Oh yea, non-alligned worlds add 2 to the variance.

The code afterwards is my means of classifying tech levels.
Class-A worlds have star travel, class B worlds have space travel,
class C are industriallized, Class D are pre-industrial civilized,
and class F worlds are precivilized.

The "--" notes the number of rings, number of moons.  I determine
number of sattelites, randomly figure the orbits, and shatter
any that fall within the roche limit.

The (3 ) is number of gas giants, followed by the number of
asteroid belts.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, that's what I use.  Travel codes are figured pretty much the
same way (except that they often look at oxygen content instead
of atmo pressure)
    
Any comments?
     -- Burton

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2920
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 91 11:47:38 EDT
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: On Hans's Aslan idea

Q: Would you rather have a lion attack you or a wolf?
A: I'd rather he attacked the wolf.

(read it out loud with different inflections to get the joke)
|->

metlay

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2921
From: chaber@kentmarsh.COM (Cecil A. Habermacher)
Subject: Re: (2908) The solution to a lot of Norris' headaches!
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 91 10:47:37 CDT

>Any comments?
>
>
>      Hans Rancke
>University of Copenhagen
>     rancke@diku.dk


Sounds good, yet also familiar; isn't this the way the Angles, Jutes
and Saxons were able to get a toehold in Britain defending former
Roman citizens from encroaching Welsh and Scots after the pullout
of the Legions back in the late fourth and early fifth centuries?  
As I recall, the Angles and Saxons then proceeded to quite happily
divide up the country between them... Wonder who'll control the Domain
in 100, 200 or 500 years if this happens?

Cecil

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

